"a pack of dogs tearing a fox limb from limb"

How do you think a fox dies if it doesn't meet it's end at a Hunt? It's certainly not in a warm bed with it's slippers on. Nice use of evocative language too, however I'm not sure a fox has the capacity to appreciate you're poetry, and if the hounds could think that deeply I'm sure they'd be unhappy with with rather unprofessional and derogatory sobriquet of "a pack of dogs".

Fox are vermin. A farmer has the right to kill them. The Hunt is a traditional way of doing so which has a social aspect. If the majority of people cared as much for animals as they so righteously claim too then the USPCA would be out of a job and not having to turn animals away because they can't cope with the *majority's* domestic cruelty. If the mojority cared so much then perhaps they'd stop and check to see if the badger/fox/cat/dog they just ran over was injured or dead, and at least have the decency to move the carcass to the verge so that the other animals who can benefit from it can do so safely (and there are hundreds of badgers and foxes killed every year on our roads).

I watched guys (mostly from Belfast judging by accents) fishing for mackeral on Sunday, using 4 hooks per line, pulling in small fish, *ripping* them off, and throwing them from about 20' back into the sea. I think that's ignorant, wasteful and cruel.

And animal rights people. Dear me. Fire bomb a house to save a fox. Good to see we've got perspective. You do realise that Bambi and Watership Down aren't real, right?

Contoversial. I think the long term future of angling can be secured by distancing ourselves from other pro hunting lobbyists, which was the gist of my initail post.
But I also believe that fox hunting cannot be justified, it is a cruel barbaric pastime, and one which I find disgusting.
The pro hunting debate focuses on how foxes would die should they not be caught in the hunt, they say because they are vermin other amateur hunters would be employed by farmers and that the foxes would die a slow death in snares or by poisoning. Taking this arguement to it's natural conclusion I believe that the best solution would be an alternative more humane approach to fox culling which involves the least possible suffering to the animal. Believe me I do not sit comfortably with aniaml rights activists, nor with fluffy bunny loving vegans, but I firmly believe fox hunting is vile.

The report at http://www.huntinginquiry.gov.uk/mainsections/report.pdf seems to be fairly balanced and appears at first glance to be a useful starting point for a debate on the issue.

Yayyy.. Go Mr. Stuart :) I was gonna rant about this, but you beat me to it, and I can't top what you said. Apart from hanging all tree huggin hippies. Foxes are vermin, they aren't cute, they aint cuddly.

I don't like Fox Hunters though, they are twats and they have no respect for the land that they are hunting on.

Around 70% of foxes are killed by a shotgun, and I would say that 7 out of 10 hunts don't catch a fox.

Banning Fox Hunting is just a PC way of keeping the animal activates happy, and uneducated townies happy.

Fox hunting is morally wrong, I honestly believe that even the most hardened Master of the Hunt must have some pangs of guilt, and know that what they are doing is morally flawed. It is such an emotive issue though, because so many peoples lives/businesses are so intertwined with the hunt. People will fight to the death when their backs are against the wall and their livelihoods are threatened, so I would imagine there will be a huge public backlash.
This issue could easily be debated for years to come, but one thing is for sure, with all pro/anti hunting views left by the wayside, most people know what is morally right.

You're starting to sound like a preacher Andy, we're talking about a function of rural society not drug abuse or sexual deviancy. This is pure and simply the killing of an animal, in this case a pest. If you actually think that Huntsmen or woman feel "guilt" in association with this then you really need to spend some time on a farm, killing animals is not something too which "guilt" is associated.

It's interesting that you use words like 'morals' and 'guilt', in other words you have no idea as to the actual objectivity of a hunt - it just 'feels' wrong to you, and if it feels wrong to you then no-one else should do it. It's an emotive issue for this very reason, not because of the financial aspect but because people who know absolutely nothing about it get a 'bad feeling' and want to stop it. It's not about the fox, cruelty or barbarism - it's just about you feeling good about yourself.

I have killed a few animals rabbits,chickens,fish and hares,and I felt a tremendous amount of guilt in doing so, I felt really uncomfortable doing it, but I was surrounded by people who appeared to have no trouble doing it.
I would be interested in hearing the objectives of a hunt, because it seems pretty clear in my mind that the objective of a fox hunt is to kill foxes. There is a huge social side to hunting which you may be referring to, aswell as the hunt fundraising activities, including the point to points, but surely the number one objective of a hunt is to kill foxes. As was stated previously foxes are vermin and farmers have a right to kill them, but surely there is a more humane way to kill them than in a hunt. Especially when the fox goes to ground and they send the terriers in, it's all wrong, wrong I tell you.

I think you might like this lady Stephen:
http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000053F6.htm

Yes, the objecive of a fox hunt is to kill a fox. What's the problem with that? Do you object to the method or the just the killing? Getting down to brass tacks have you any idea about the amount of trauma (a better word than suffering IMO) a fish goes through when caught? Do you feel guilty then? What about when you eat a steak? Do you know how they kill some cattle? Stunned, then the beast's throat is slit, hung upside down and allowed to pump it's own blood out by the still beating heart. How's the guilt now? Fois Gras anyone? Describe these in your scheme of vileness, barbarism and morality.

Just because you managed to force the world around you into a sanitised, brushed aluminium, temperature regulated utopia doesn't mean the real world is like that. Mother nature is a wild beast who wants to either shag you and eat the offspring or just eat you.

:)

I am aware of how animals that we eat die, I worked for two summers in Moy Park chicken factory in Portadown.
You see I like to make informed choices, I like to eat free range eggs because it makes me feel better about the conditions the chickens were kept in, I try not to buy farmed fish, I try not to buy Value brands of meat. All these things I do because it makes me feel like I have caused less suffering.
I would not eat Foie Gras, I would not purchase veal. Obviously I can only do so much, and there are countless things that someone could pick from my lifestyle that will have caused harm to animals, especially fishing, but I couldn't really give a monkeys where I might slip up, as long as I feel that I have made the right decision based on what I know.

And would you have a law passed making all the people who do enjoy such things crimminals, thus removing the choice?

Yes

I think any person who participates in fox hunting is a mindless individual. They are obviously devoid of any kind of life of their own and so take pleasure in killing foxes in the least humain way possible. Im not saying that i am a tree hugging hippie but i dont believe that killing any kind of animal in this manner is correct. I accept that people believe that foxes need to be kept under control, but surely there is a much more humain way of carrying this out.

I think that anyone willing to kill animals for fun, is an evil git. Do fox hunters really think they are doing it for the mere purpose of keeping fox numbers down?No, they enjoy the game of subject and domination and use excuses to cover up their lust for destroying something beautiful.

Well said Vic and Tash. As a member of the league against cruel sports, who monitor hunts, I have seen foxes both escape and being killed at close range. The horror has to be seen to be believed. The thugs that follow the hunt have to be seen also.

The only 'vermin' here are those that participate in this mindless violence. I could buy and sell most of the hnut twice over - so this is anot a jealousy issue, I care about animal suffering.

I accept that some foxes may be a nuisance to farmers, in which case thay can be shot, however being a farmer does not give you dominion over animal cruelty.

If it is a case of freedom that the hunters want, then I want the right to set my dogs on the hunt master - I and the dogs would enjoy it so why not ? It could soon become traditional !

Killing foxes at random - as hunts do - does not cotrol them - they are a top carnivore - and as such are seld regulating.

It is just excuses by fools that say they are doing a service to anyone - except their own blood lust